The view of many (mainly lefties) in the western world that terrorists cannot be defeated is an odd one and if true means we are in for one sad future. The reasoning, as can be seen here or by watching cable news, is that if a terrorist organization is attacked, its popularity soars along with its recruits making it even stronger than before. In other words, heads the terrorists win. Meanwhile, they freely crash planes into buildings, launch rockets, kidnap soldiers, send suicide bombers to cafes and all we can do is smile apparently. In all seriousness, what can be done then? Sit back and take the attacks, negotiate and give them Gaza or southern Lebanon in return for peace? As history shows, by doing nothing we allow the terrorist organizations to grow in strength as they show the disaffected masses in their own country that while they may not be able to provide jobs or clean water (just like their governments) they can at least lick the hated powerful countries (unlike their governments). Sure we can bribe them for a time. In exchange for Gaza I think Hamas waited a day or so before launching rockets into Israel. So tails we lose.
If this world view is correct then we may as well get used to the world as the terrorists desire it since nothing we can do will defeat them. Fight them they grow stronger, appease them they grow stronger, ignore them they grow stronger. My only question then is, why not fight them? Why wait around for them to become so strong (by say storing 12,000 or more rockets) or even nuclear armed in the future? In the terrorist worldview our only role is to die. Since according to the left nothing we do can stop them, might we may as well go out standing on our feet like this Italian hero rather than curled up sobbing and begging next to our grave? Of course I am fervently opposed to the lefty world view, I’m just pointing out that even if it is correct I’d still rather we fight the terrorists.
There is also a good exchange in the comments section that I think expands fairly well on the idea behind this post.
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I hope that sometimes you and your house and your familie will get also in such a "payback" bombing just because someone ist saying your neighbors are terrorists or so. Then you will realize what WAR really means -cause its all about stompin innocents.
ReplyDeleteAnd stop bringing in your christian bullshit by talking on such a waste of man!
Kirsten, the lefty view would be the better to be a fish in a little pond than a big fish in the ocean. People willing to sell out their nation's interests for political power has been a problem since the beginning of democracy.
ReplyDeleteFirst off there was something on 9/11 here so we do know what it is like. Secondly if Arabs don't want their houses bombed then they need to stop bombing other peoples' houses. If Arabs think they have an allah-given right (or any other excuse)to bomb Israelis or Americans or anyone else then take the payback like a man and stop whining like a little girl. I don't see anything in your litte rant about what to do with terrorists who kill innocents regardless of what others do?
ReplyDeleteJarod,
ReplyDeleteVery well stated. I like your writing. Glad I stumbled in.
Bombed or be bombed... or maybe we can look deeper into the roots of terrorism and deal with it on that level...hmmmmm... Just like crime in the US in the 90's. Yes, it helped to put a great deal of people in jail... however, NEW crime was prevented by addressing poverty, creating programs for young people in poor areas, and by having people heavily involved in those areas... Same for the terrorists, address the corruption among middle east governments, stop kissing the ass of Israel, Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries (and companies), help middle eastern people (infrastructure, jobs, education - secular, since in many of those countries the governments refuse to pay for education, leaving it to religious organizations)... and we may be signing a different tune.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, we could get trigger happy, bomb Iran, and everybody else. Iran can shut down oil exportation, the price of a barrel could go to $100 and, even better, they may try (again) to convince OPEC to change the currency in which oil is traded to Euros... Then you'd be looking at paying few hundred dollars to drive to work each day... If you have a job left...
Not as simple as bombing or being bombed
Oh yes, how could I have not noticed crime disappear in the US? Oh yeah, because it didn't. I'd try to come up with a better comparison next time. Anyhow, the idea that it is poverty and bad government is the cause of terrorism is mistaken. If it were true then where are the Haitian suicide bombers in Miami cafes, the Ukrainian hijackers flying planes into Franfurt commercial towers, and Vietmanese blowing up Hong Kong trains? Why are well off, and (for the sake of argument) well governed European Muslims blowing up trains and buses? I know Bush would agree that reforming and developing the middle east will end terrorism but I'm not so sure. Turky is the most developed and best ruled muslim country and it still produces suicide bombers (one blew up a stature of Ataturk!) but also theocrat fanatics like the AKP. This also assumes that the Arab can be reformed before the terrorists are defeated. It further assumes the Arab world will allow anyone else to reform them. Why would clerics, leaders, and armed men who believe they are on a mission from allah (in the general sense at least) allow anyone to take their method of living away from them freely? Why would it be any different than in Iraq with the terrorists trying to bomb their way back to power? Someone (most likely us or Israel) will have to destroy the terorrists first before there can be any reform. One of the biggest mistakes we made in Iraq was not going into the Sunni Triangle in force and under combat conditions in April 2003 and letting the various terror and insurgent leaders and followers to regroup (as a side not we planned for the 4th ID to do that but it was missing thanks to Powell's horrendous diplomacy with Turkey). Minus the US military there would have been nothing stopping them from suceeding in Iraq, and minus the Israeli military there is no reason they won't in Lebanon. So we are back to square one, the terrorists have to be destroyed as functioning entities first. In the end, the Arabs are going to have to change their culture. 60 years ago the Japanese were even more fanatical than the Arabs are today (they were also relatively well off and well governed btw). I do fear that like the Japanese it will ultimately require a 1945 style bombing campaign to achieve this culture shift, but of course we shouldn't try that first and hopefully it won't require it. As for the Euro, we'll have to see if it will even last given the strain it is facing with the different monetary policy requirements of northern and southern Europe. I also doubt OPEC is doing anything at Iran's behest. They do enough business both ways in dollars and it's lower risk make keeping it worthwhile. As for Iran shutting down its oil production, the world has many many years worth of Iranian oil in stockpiles so the $4 gas it would eventually cause will occur long after such a decision has led to the complete collapse of Iran. However, such baseless fears are undoubtedly why the terrorists and terror states believe we are easy to beat. Someone who won't fight because it may cause gas to rise above $3 is someone who doesn't need to be feared as they take everything we have. So #1, terrorists must be destroyed, #2 Arab culture changed, then we can get to #3 Middle east reformed. Since we can't get to #3 without doing #1 first, we can't do #3 if we can't do #1 first. Which is my point. Try coming up with some reasons why poverty and misrule cause terror when the evidence seems to point to Islamic culture instead (no just declaring a link doesn't make it so). Also, I'd prefer bomb or be bombed to the lefty version, been bombed, been bombed, been bombed,... . This is the best reasoned lefty response I've gotten so far (my brain actually had to go above 0 mph, but only to 10), so whatever congrats that is worth.
ReplyDeleteFirst, I forgot to say thanks for having enough interest to comment. Secondly, I should add that I am not saying all reform and aid efforts are pointless. We should do what we can to help but accept that it will be limited with terrorists running around so we shouldn't have high of hopes. We also need to be better prepared after military operations for the task of reculturizing and rebuilding these areas. Iraq was a good lesson. We badly underestimated how terrible the infrastructure and culture were in that country. However, since it was about the worst in the region (pending what we find after an Iran invasion) we know what we need to rebuild places like southern Lebanon and Syria in the future. How could we have possibly rebuilt Iraq and the Iraqi culture without an invasion? It wasn't happening and it is safe to say (given the history) that it never would have happened. Again, if you don't view Iraq as having any possible positive outcome then there is no way the country would ever have been rebuilt.
ReplyDeleteThanks Todd M, I'm also glad you stumbled in and found it interesting.
ReplyDeleteHello from a blogger down under in New Zealand. I don't know what is more interesting - the posts on your blog or the comments section.
ReplyDeleteI for the life of cannot understand why we cannot all live in "peace" !!! After all, it's not our world, it's no ones world as we are all "just passing thru" !!! All we are doing is f****** up the world for the generations to come and they have to try and sort out the mess that we have left behind.
What a world we would have if we had no borders, able to travel freely anywhere anytime !!!
I would like to mention your blog on one of my blogs, but aren't too sure which one yet. Either 21 21 21 Blogs or on Around The World In 80 Blogs. If I listed it on 21 21 21, given time time as more blogs are added, it would move down and get lost, where as on "80" it would remain where it was listed.
It's worth sharing - it really is.
Bomb them all and kill them all! Yes indeed, what a BRILLIANT idea. Kristenchub (earlier post) says the left has a "seriously flawed logic"??? Therefore the conservative logic is not flawed??? Kristen, darling, think before you type. Your lack of thought IS adorable though. Also, stop watching so much FOX news (its not good for your health).
ReplyDeletePerhaps you should learn how to read mr. anonymous, if that is indeed your real name. The post is about a hypothetical which is to what kirstachub was responding. Since you've obviously shown your badly compromised lefty mind can't process such logic I'll kindly explain it to you. The hypothetical is that leftwingers are right in their world view that terrorism and islamic radicalism cannot be defeated by force. IF that is indeed the case we have two options, give up and accept our dhimmitude like the left wants, or continue fighting and taking as many islamic radicals with us as possible. One left winger at least capable of a minimal amount of mental activity offered a third option that I shot down in an even longer reply. I know, it must have been too much for you to read and process so you went after kirstachub's short comment in a very poor manner instead.
ReplyDeleteEmpirical evidence is against you.
ReplyDeleteAnd you have a deep love of straw man arguments.
ReplyDeleteKiller comeback.
ReplyDeleteRehsab Thgir